(10/09/2014, 21:13)rapier Escreveu: Isso tem mais a ver com a mitologia geral da Type Moon, não está relacionado só a Kyoukai.
Que eu lembre, a personalidade masculina é responsável pelos pensamentos reprimidos e impulsos rebeldes da Shiki, logo é mais "madura" simplesmente por ter coisa pior para se preocupar. Acontece a mesma coisa em Prisma Illya,
Spoiler: Fate Prisma
a Ilha preta, que basicamente é o lado obscuro da Ilha branca, é mais madura do que a Ilha branca.
É tão simples, e eu aqui pensando que talvez tenha tido um motivo da "terceira personalidade" ter feito isso.
Por que quando o Shiki morreu ela despertou os olhos? Outra coisa que não entendi.
(10/09/2014, 21:02)Ray Escreveu: @Oiacz, e o que seria Akasha? Porquê ela poderia ser tudo ou poderia ser o nada? Esse Akasha é o que deu origem a tudo? Isso é uma das coisas que não consigo entender.
Levando em consideração que o @rapier disse, surgiu uma dúvida, no filme 2 quando o Shiki fala com o Kokutou, basicamente ele diz que a Shiki não sabe amar porque ele estava dentro dela desde o início, a personalidade homem dela parece já ser desenvolvida. Vou deixar mais claro, ele diz que quando criança você é amado a todos por amar a si próprio e também, ele também diz que só sabemos expressar os sentimentos que temos, no final ele diz que por ele estar junto da Shiki, a Shiki não soube amar, e parece que esse é motivo dela "repugnar" as pessoas. Enfim a dúvida é, porquê as duas personalidades não foram desenvolvidas juntas? Era para a/o Shiki ter criado uma personalidade normalmente, mas não, o Shiki já pensa como um adulto, e isso corrompeu a Shiki.
Espero que consigam entender.
Disse ali em cima... "Fate/ e em KnK são obras sobre magos tentando chegar na Raíz de todo o Conhecimento; Akasha."
Spoiler:
Akasha, the Root (根源, Kongen, "Radix" in the English localization), is a metaphysical location within the Nasuverse as the "force" that exists at the top of all theories on dimensions. It is the location of the Akashic Records, the Swirl of the Root (根源の渦, Kongen no Uzu, "the Vortex of Radix" in the English localization), which is the source of all events and phenomena in the universe. Existing outside of time, it stores and archives information of all possibilities and events, past, present, and future, of the world. It is the place from where all souls, including those of Heroic Spirits recorded on the Throne of Heroes, originate from and to where they return after death.
In Kara no Kyoukai, "Akashic Records" is a name used to pronounce 「 」 (quoted empty space, equivalent of " "), which is also referred to as "void" (空, Kara) that is part of the title, a Japanese word for the Buddhist concept of emptiness, Sunyata. Although, because the Akashic Records is a name, it automatically can't be said to be the same anymore, since 「 」 is just emptiness that can't have a name. Shiki's eyes are presumably linked to the root which gains her the ability to see the lines of mortality. Souren Araya abducted her in the chapter Paradox Spiral and attempted to use her to reach the Root.
/\ Tudo se origina em Akasha e tudo volta para Akasha.
Agora sobre porque se torna "nada ou tudo," no último parágrafo \/
Spoiler:
The ultimate ambition of the Magi is to reach it and many focus their experiments into discovering a path to it. The First Magic and Fifth Magic were the result of reaching the path without entering, while the Second, Third, and Fourth Magics were meant as a means to reach it. There are various methods used in attempts to reach it, usually involving reaching the pinnacle of a certain concept. There are also methods meant to reach it through manipulating certain systems, such as the Holy Grail War using Heroic Spirits returning to the Grail as a way of making a hole to it. Once a route is used, it is closed for good upon becoming established. If one isn't entered, it can be left until someone does claim it, thus closing it off for good.
Souren Araya attempted to reach it by tracing the roots of the soul, something that is there but not there, in order to reach a group consciousness. Touko Aozaki studied the human body while aiming to recreate the original human body, under the belief that modern humans could no longer reach Akasha after becoming too diversified genetically. Norikata Emiya wished to accelerate time to observe the end of the universe, believing that it would allow him to reach the Root. Nagato Tohsaka, due to his martial arts background, believed that he could reach Akasha by attaining a state of nothingness and enlightenment. As it has no connection to this actual world, the Church, which is only interested in this world, finds it completely meaningless.
Those who have touched it directly have never returned to the world. Those who have managed to touch it ceased to exist on the spot, as their human souls are either going back to "where they came from", becoming absorbed into the Root, or something similar. The exact details are unknown, so even magi who have left their names in history have refrained from touching it. There are only the Magicians who have come close, but backed away before touching it like Aoko Aozaki and magi who get close to stabilize their own Magecraft in a hurry. Aoko believes that it is possible those who end up there "become God" in a sense, so there is no reason for them to come back. It is also possible they cannot come back because "being God" isn't truly such a wondrous event as humans may think. Both those who succeeded and failed touched it and couldn't return to the world. It may be they told people about it is because the first person to become God wanted companions out of loneliness, or that their work on that side was so massive that they needed other companions.
Ao alcançar Akasha, a pessoa simplesmente volta para o nada que é Akasha, então ela se torna nada.
Mas ao mesmo tempo tudo, pois a teoria é que ela teria um poder equivalente a de um Deus.
O que importa é que a pessoa deixa de existir no mundo e passa a existir fora dele.
Sobre a falação das personalidades da Shiki, não compreendi o que quis dizer, e particularmente não lembro muito sobre o SHIKI...
(10/09/2014, 21:53)AmagamiBr Escreveu: Fico bem confuso por causa dos nomes.
Principalmente quando citam SHIKI, lembro de Tsukihime, fora que os dois tem o mesma habilidade nos olhos.
Mas ainda não terminei de ver Kara no Kyoukai.
Que eu saiba Kara no Kyoukai é a versão beta de Tsukihime. Nota-se bem porque Kyoukai tem versões beta de personagens, enquanto que Tsukihime tem personagens.
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are a hybrid power, taking aspects of both Mystic Eyes and Pure Eyes, but they are classified as ESP. They are acquired through a near-death experience, gained by being immersed in "death." Their frequency is so rare that they are thought of as nothing more than a myth even by beings like True Ancestors. Simply encountering them makes Arcueid Brunestud call Shiki Tohno a monster due to their unique attributes not found even among the most powerful creatures on the planet.
Tohno acquired the eyes after being essentially killed by SHIKI Tohno and immediately sustained by Akiha Tohno's life force. Ryougi acquired the eyes after a two year coma left her in contact with the Root for a prolonged amount of time due to being hit by a car and the "death" of her male personality. Arcueid believes Tohno had a natural affinity beforehand, and as part of her third personality's abilities, Ryougi's body already had the ability to see them. The ability was simply brought to the forefront and awakened by the accident.
São Olhos Místicos muito raros de se formar, mas se formam quando a pessoa sofre uma "experiência de morte," no caso da Shiki, o coma, mais a morte do SHIKI. Mas antes mesmo ela já tinha a habilidade com ela por causa da 3º personalidade, só que "desativada." O coma apenas ligou os Olhos.
(10/09/2014, 21:54)rapier Escreveu: Que eu saiba Kara no Kyoukai é a versão beta de Tsukihime. Nota-se bem porque Kyoukai tem versões beta de personagens, enquanto que Tsukihime tem personagens.
Então assim faz sentido.
Isso me lembra que vendo imagens de Kara no Kyoukai, tinha uma personagem parecida com a Akiha.
Até pensei em ver o anime de Tsukihime, mas o traço me da medo
(10/09/2014, 21:57)Zefiris Escreveu: Eu gosto de Tsukihime, em especial da simbiose entre clima e trilha sonora. Mas dizem que este anime não existe e o que eu vi era uma assombração
Eu vi e gostei do que vi. A "Arcade Bumstead" era muito boa. Mas o anime era malfeito que cansava a vista. Um remake seria o ideal.
(10/09/2014, 22:01)AmagamiBr Escreveu: Até pensei em ver o anime de Tsukihime, mas o traço me da medo
O problema é que Tsukihime anime literalmente ficou ultrapassado, considerando os animes da Ufotable, aí ver atualmente só desanima.
(10/09/2014, 21:46)Oiacz Escreveu: Disse ali em cima... "Fate/ e em KnK são obras sobre magos tentando chegar na Raíz de todo o Conhecimento; Akasha."
Spoiler:
Akasha, the Root (根源, Kongen, "Radix" in the English localization), is a metaphysical location within the Nasuverse as the "force" that exists at the top of all theories on dimensions. It is the location of the Akashic Records, the Swirl of the Root (根源の渦, Kongen no Uzu, "the Vortex of Radix" in the English localization), which is the source of all events and phenomena in the universe. Existing outside of time, it stores and archives information of all possibilities and events, past, present, and future, of the world. It is the place from where all souls, including those of Heroic Spirits recorded on the Throne of Heroes, originate from and to where they return after death.
In Kara no Kyoukai, "Akashic Records" is a name used to pronounce 「 」 (quoted empty space, equivalent of " "), which is also referred to as "void" (空, Kara) that is part of the title, a Japanese word for the Buddhist concept of emptiness, Sunyata. Although, because the Akashic Records is a name, it automatically can't be said to be the same anymore, since 「 」 is just emptiness that can't have a name. Shiki's eyes are presumably linked to the root which gains her the ability to see the lines of mortality. Souren Araya abducted her in the chapter Paradox Spiral and attempted to use her to reach the Root.
/\ Tudo se origina em Akasha e tudo volta para Akasha.
Agora sobre porque se torna "nada ou tudo," no último parágrafo \/
Spoiler:
The ultimate ambition of the Magi is to reach it and many focus their experiments into discovering a path to it. The First Magic and Fifth Magic were the result of reaching the path without entering, while the Second, Third, and Fourth Magics were meant as a means to reach it. There are various methods used in attempts to reach it, usually involving reaching the pinnacle of a certain concept. There are also methods meant to reach it through manipulating certain systems, such as the Holy Grail War using Heroic Spirits returning to the Grail as a way of making a hole to it. Once a route is used, it is closed for good upon becoming established. If one isn't entered, it can be left until someone does claim it, thus closing it off for good.
Souren Araya attempted to reach it by tracing the roots of the soul, something that is there but not there, in order to reach a group consciousness. Touko Aozaki studied the human body while aiming to recreate the original human body, under the belief that modern humans could no longer reach Akasha after becoming too diversified genetically. Norikata Emiya wished to accelerate time to observe the end of the universe, believing that it would allow him to reach the Root. Nagato Tohsaka, due to his martial arts background, believed that he could reach Akasha by attaining a state of nothingness and enlightenment. As it has no connection to this actual world, the Church, which is only interested in this world, finds it completely meaningless.
Those who have touched it directly have never returned to the world. Those who have managed to touch it ceased to exist on the spot, as their human souls are either going back to "where they came from", becoming absorbed into the Root, or something similar. The exact details are unknown, so even magi who have left their names in history have refrained from touching it. There are only the Magicians who have come close, but backed away before touching it like Aoko Aozaki and magi who get close to stabilize their own Magecraft in a hurry. Aoko believes that it is possible those who end up there "become God" in a sense, so there is no reason for them to come back. It is also possible they cannot come back because "being God" isn't truly such a wondrous event as humans may think. Both those who succeeded and failed touched it and couldn't return to the world. It may be they told people about it is because the first person to become God wanted companions out of loneliness, or that their work on that side was so massive that they needed other companions.
Ao alcançar Akasha, a pessoa simplesmente volta para o nada que é Akasha, então ela se torna nada.
Mas ao mesmo tempo tudo, pois a teoria é que ela teria um poder equivalente a de um Deus.
O que importa é que a pessoa deixa de existir no mundo e passa a existir fora dele.
Sobre a falação das personalidades da Shiki, não compreendi o que quis dizer, e particularmente não lembro muito sobre o SHIKI...
Isso é tão complicado, inclusive na parte que a pessoa tem o poder equivalente a de um Deus e se torna nada.
Explica melhor essa parada de deixar de viver no mundo e viver fora dele, com um exemplo pra simplificar.
Vou explicar de maneira simples, quando a Shiki era criança, ela já tinha as duas personalidades, mas uma delas já era desenvolvida mesmo sendo criança, no caso essa era a personalidade do Shiki, a Shiki era uma criança normal, ou era pra ser se o Shiki não pensasse como um adulto. O complicado disso é que uma criança não tem pensamento reprimido e impulso rebelde, logo é uma anomalia a personalidade do Shiki existir.
Acabei de ver o filme 4 aqui, o que a Touka disse pra justificar os olhos da percepção da morte foi vazio, mas agora que o Oiacz falou, faz mais sentido. Apesar disso, não consigo entender o motivo da terceira personalidade ter haver com isso.
Eu tinha Tsukihime aqui, deixei no pendrive e um colega apagou sem querer, era pra eu estar assistindo isso atualmente.
Espero que façam um remake de Tsukihime, e que seja Ufotable.
